Pressefreiheit in Indien - Zwischen Demokratie und Repression

00:00:38: This is one of the most beautiful places in the world.

00:00:38: So, good morning everyone and a warm welcome to this episode of Freirede which means free speech in German.

00:00:45: This is the podcast of The Tazpander Foundation where we take closer look at topics related to press freedom And today I have three wonderful guests with me Rohit, Zafina & Vigetta.

00:00:59: Before I introduce them to you in more detail, I briefly want to explain why we're here today and what connects all of us.

00:01:09: This is a workshop organized by the Tatspanda Foundation called In Dialogue Germany & India And A Complex Geopolitical Landscape.

00:01:28: We all met in daily at end of June and beginning July where we discussed the evolving relationship between Germany, European Union & India.

00:01:38: A strong focus during these days was on economic relations and diplomacy but since all participants were journalists another important dimension is how developments are reported And this is where today's episode comes in.

00:01:58: It gives us an opportunity to take a look behind the scenes and learn more about conditions under which journalists in India work, report on issues such as human rights minority rights environmental issues politics and polarization As we heard.

00:02:17: So before we dive deeper into these questions I would like to introduce our three guests.

00:02:25: We have Rohit Upatya.

00:02:28: you're an Indian independent journalist, documentarian and YouTuber with over eight hundred thousand followers based in Noida Uttar Pradesh.

00:02:39: Your reporting focuses on environmental issues public health human rights and geopolitics And alongside You're reporting for outlets including the Wire, India Spent BBC Hindi or Outlook.

00:02:53: He reaches audiences through digital journalism.

00:02:59: Vijayath Lalvani you are an award-winning journalist and researcher based in Pune Maharashtra covering politics policy and polarization in india.

00:03:09: You worked in multiple newsrooms, helming several groundbreaking investigations concerning sectarian violence mass protests public health and gender.

00:03:20: For your work you received multiple awards including the Human Rights & Religious Freedom Award for best text reporting and grants from Pulitzer Center.

00:03:31: And last but not least Safina Wani.

00:03:33: You're an independent journalist based in Srinagar, Jammu and Kashmir who has reported from there for over nine years now.

00:03:43: I would very much like to discuss this now.

00:04:08: Maybe Vigetta, do you want to start playing your sound and also explain what we can hear?

00:04:14: And why did you choose the sound today?

00:04:26: Thank you so much, Vigeta!

00:04:28: Why did you chose that song

00:04:29: then?!

00:04:30: What can be heard?

00:04:32: So the sound that I played is a marching sound and it reminds me of censorship because It takes my back to what time when i was reporting on violence in Delhi In twenty-twenty.

00:04:46: so,I was present at ground when a riot breaking out And I remember this moment where police were charging mob.

00:04:56: You know police and security forces, they wear these really thick boots which make a certain sound especially when they are in large numbers.

00:05:04: So I remember that exact moment And i also remember how someone from the mob told me to stop recording because he knew That was journalist and threatened me to Stop Recording.

00:05:16: so yeah this sounds sense that chills down my spine.

00:05:20: Thank you so much Rohit, do you want to continue and play the sound that you brought with your today?

00:05:27: Yeah.

00:05:28: The sound I have brought is not exactly about the press freedom but it's more about India and reporting.

00:05:36: so i'd like to play this song... The Sound I Have Brought is a musical horn we often hear from trucks on Indian roads.

00:05:58: Of course, it may sound like a strange choice but most of us do not like horns.

00:06:03: But this particular sound also feels very familiar to me.

00:06:09: In other countries people generally use horns only when there's some danger or urgency.

00:06:17: in India honking is almost necessary.

00:06:20: Drivers use it before taking blind turns while overtaking warn people and other vehicles on the road because our roads are crowded with people, so anything can suddenly appear in front of you.

00:06:37: So the horn becomes a way saying that please be careful!

00:06:41: The interesting thing about it is that many Indian trucks do not have simple horns.

00:06:47: Their horn plays small melody often inspired from some old Bollywood song.

00:06:55: Maybe the truck drivers know that people already hate the sound of horn so they try to make it a little more bearable, pleasant.

00:07:05: And you generally do not hear these musical track horns anywhere else.

00:07:12: So whenever I heard this one immediately think about being on road.

00:07:18: at same time It also reminds me we still have long way to go.

00:07:24: So for me this sound is both, I mean comforting and uncomfortable just like India.

00:07:33: Thank you so much Rohit.

00:07:35: Safina maybe also want to share the sounds brought with today?

00:08:04: This a mix of sounds of firing by armed forces during encounter in Kashmir, sounds of clicks of cameras while covering an encounter and civilian protests.

00:08:43: So, thank you very much for bringing the sound with today.

00:08:48: I think it was a good element to give our listeners first impression of just how diverse India is.

00:08:58: and before we dive deeper into your personal experience as journalists i want to give out listeners little bit context.

00:09:07: india's home around one point four six billion people making it the most populous country in the world and also, The World's Largest Democracy.

00:09:19: Even if the term democracy is often discussed... ...the resignation of India's Education Minister after days of cockroach youth protest might be a good sign for that!

00:09:32: India consists of twenty-eight states & eight union territories with major regional differences in politics culture religion and economic development.

00:09:43: The Indian constitution recognizes twenty-two languages, while hundreds of other languages and dialects are spoken across the country.

00:09:52: Hindi and English play an important role at a national level but regional languages are essential to understand India with all aspects.

00:10:02: India is also one of world's largest economies has become increasingly influential geopolitical actor.

00:10:10: At the same time, the country has undergone a massive digital transformation.

00:10:14: Around seventy percent of its population is online today.

00:10:19: Social media have fundamentally changed how millions people consume

00:10:23: news

00:10:24: and this brings us to another side in the world's largest democracy.

00:10:28: In the twenty-sixth World Press Freedom Index by Reporters Without Borders India ranks at place one hundred fifty seven out of one hundred eighty countries.

00:10:40: Journalists can face political and economic pressure, legal action online harassment and physical violence.

00:10:48: Media ownership and political influences on big outlets have also become important concerns.

00:10:55: At the same time journalists across country continue to investigate and question those in power by creating new independent firms of journalism.

00:11:06: And this brings us today What does it actually mean to work as a journalist in India under the given circumstances?

00:11:19: I would like to start with the regional differences because, as we heard an introduction.

00:11:24: India is very diverse and with twenty eight states and eight union territories The political and social environments for journalists can be quite different depending also where they work.

00:11:37: so i Would like to hear more about this situation.

00:11:41: regions you know best and maybe Rohit, You can start to tell a bit more about the situation in Noida and Delhi.

00:11:49: In the surrounding area where you operate?

00:11:51: And what particular challenges do journalists face reporting from the political center of the country?

00:11:58: Oh

00:11:59: yeah I live in the political centre because Delhi and CR comes into the national capital region.

00:12:03: so But being in Delhi and CR, physically you can say that I am closer to people in power.

00:12:11: Being close does not mean we also have the real access.

00:12:15: so our Prime Minister has not held a press conference for nearly twelve years now.

00:12:24: So these days here from reporter friends even ministers often give their statements only to news agencies.

00:12:34: Sometimes they only speak directly to the camera without even taking any questions from reporters.

00:12:40: Reporters are not allowed, so that itself tells your story about the condition of press freedom in India right now.

00:12:49: So The situation is Even more difficult for independent journalists.

00:12:53: many of us work Without press card or backing off a large media organization.

00:13:00: We don't have same access financial support or institutional protection.

00:13:06: We also saw this during the Cockroach Janta Party recent Gen Z protests when independent journalists were beaten up by police while covering the protest.

00:13:18: so one of my own team mates was beaten.

00:13:24: So you know, when you are independent state can also harass and discredit your work.

00:13:31: I remember When a police case was filed against me, the report did not describe me as journalist even once.

00:13:42: It repeatedly called me an influencer.

00:13:46: So you know I do also like...I don't think journalists are safe anywhere in India right now Simply because we know what kind of you know atrocities are being like.

00:14:02: they're their trailer charges against journalists but journalists who were working outside Delhi and You know, outside of major cities.

00:14:12: They are often more vulnerable.

00:14:14: since Safina is here She can add more to this.

00:14:18: so And their cases may not receive national attention, and the local authorities can target them with less fear of public scrutiny.

00:14:29: So I mean being in Delhi NCR.

00:14:32: it can be a privilege for many of us... ...and people who are not based out of Delhi or other major cities It's very difficult to do journalism.

00:14:41: Yes Safina i would like take closer look to the situation you face in Kashmir, it's a region shaped by decades of conflict and tensions between India and Pakistan.

00:14:53: And also in two thousand nineteen there was a revocation off the autonomy status of Jammu and Kashmir .And this also had major consequences for journalism right?

00:15:07: Yes ,of course The Decades Of Conflict Had A Serious Consequences On Journalism.

00:15:14: There have been arrests, there has been threats.

00:15:19: The journalists who were doing reporting during the nineties they had seen the kind of difficulties that they faced at this point in time when there was an active conflict with Kashmir.

00:15:34: Even the national dailies generally focus on and the journalists cannot freely report, but it's not new in two thousand nineteen.

00:15:43: We have seen a similar pattern back in two-thousand eight, two-tenth ten, two hundred thirteen and twenty sixteen.

00:15:53: for me what I've realized is that my experience has changed and there are prolonged descent of information.

00:16:03: So when we talk about two thousand nineteen, it is that there was a communication blackout for longer period and even the landlines were not working at times.

00:16:15: The journalists have to either travel to Delhi To file stories physically At least the landline phones are working in twenty sixteen And the journalist were dictating their story through newsrooms which was not the case in two thousand nineteen, as I said that they were traveling to Delhi to file their stories.

00:16:38: Which completely you know this situation back in nineties era when there wasn't a limited communication technology.

00:16:47: so i remember one of my editors in delhi.

00:16:51: he was a Kashmiri.

00:16:52: He told me during the militancy era and there were so many stories.

00:16:58: And they used to send their story while writing on paper, giving papers for bus drivers travelling from Srinagar to Delhi.

00:17:08: The similar pattern followed in a year when journalists travelled to Kashmir The journalists who were reporting from here, where giving them the pen rise.

00:17:24: The aim was to get the information out.

00:17:27: So, yeah so we have seen that pattern has changed but the descent of information is still there.

00:17:35: and what followed in the year?

00:17:37: two thousand nineteen abrogation of article three seventy.

00:17:42: you know this one collective which documents on press freedom.

00:17:47: it's called free speech collective based in India.

00:17:51: They documented that around forty journalists in Kashmir were called and summoned during the two years of abrogation.

00:18:01: And in fact, in twenty-twenty Jammu Kashmir government came up with a media policy of JK Media Policy.

00:18:08: Twenty-Twenty which was widely criticized by press freedom organizations and journalists groups.

00:18:15: you know that raises serious concerns on government control.

00:18:18: On free press as Rohit was mentioning.

00:18:20: You Know In national capital the journalist doesn't face The kind of surveillance what other regions faced particularly German Kashmir.

00:18:31: You know, we have so many freelancers in Kashmir who left the region and started reporting from different parts of the country.

00:18:40: So you can sense their environment here why they had to leave that region?

00:18:45: Their homes and report on other cities.

00:18:47: For me, the sides of the table has changed here.

00:18:51: The journalists cannot really question their authorities even if they does.

00:18:55: you know They tag you as a propaganda As an anti-national a threat to national security.

00:19:01: so You know by asking simply questions which make them uncomfortable.

00:19:07: Yeah Pune where you are from Vigetta might be a city compared to Jamun Kashmir and Delhi were we just talked about now doesn't get that much attention, especially when it comes also to international reporting on it.

00:19:23: But can you let us know a bit more about the situation you face there?

00:19:28: What are working conditions for journalists in western India and Pune

00:19:33: region?".

00:19:34: So I would say is rather boring to be a journalist in Pune because it's four hours away from Mumbai which is you know the commercial capital of the country and so, its really not fun at all to report here.

00:19:53: To be very honest with you I'm not claiming that It's safe for journalists to be there.

00:19:59: i don't think Its safe for any where depending on their reporting or sensitivity.

00:20:08: But yes, this particular city does not get as much space in the newspapers or even on news channels etc.

00:20:16: So I treat my being here as a base and try to travel for reporting So that I can get to stories, which i actually want to cover.

00:20:32: so what?

00:20:34: in the last couple of months.

00:20:36: I've been to andaba That's been to paroda.

00:20:39: I have been to Mumbai up into deli And I also had some trips plan too Kolkata as well for work For reporting.

00:20:49: so yeah II treat this like a base.

00:20:51: um and uh

00:20:54: Yeah okay, let's take a closer look onto the different forms of media in India.

00:21:02: And I want to start with you, Rohit as you also said that your not working with mainstream media anymore and now work on social medias... ...I was curious because in YouTube bio it says i bring stories from real india that are missing.

00:21:21: What do you mean by the real India?

00:21:23: and what kind of stories, Do You Think are missing in mainstream media?

00:21:28: So I remember a British diplomat once telling me that Delhi to him felt like lot like London.

00:21:37: And i was honestly surprised when told Him Of course it does!

00:21:41: And you live in central Delhi bro.

00:21:44: so I told him That also living here in Delhi NCR The area where l even has no a metro connectivity or not even proper public bus service.

00:21:56: He was shocked to hear that, so I explained that Central Delhi are well maintained but they do not give you the real picture of either Delhi or India.

00:22:12: So there like decorated front portion of visitors which is meant Often, you know see your shiny television studios with India gates in the background and assume that this is what India looks like.

00:22:29: but I completely disagree With this picture of India.

00:22:34: India's much bigger more diverse And far more beautiful than What we see from The Central Delhi.

00:22:41: at the same time it It was also much more You Know unorganized and lacks basic facilities and In many places.

00:22:50: So to understand India one has to move beyond Central Delhi, travel through its smaller cities towns villages and speak to people who actually live there.

00:23:01: do their stories talk about this story instead of you know covering the communal stories.

00:23:08: You know twenty four into seven or following your prime minister.

00:23:12: so that is kind of stories which are missing.

00:23:17: I mean, my open India gate can make a very good background but it cannot show you the real India.

00:23:24: So yeah... We don't get good coverage from Kashmir.

00:23:28: we do not have good coverage of rural parts Maharashtra.

00:23:32: so these are those kind stories that should be covered by mainstream media But they're missing and there's few independent media channels you know, cover those issues.

00:23:46: So in my opinion the Indian mainstream media which they are showing to its people, the real India is missing from their screens.

00:23:57: so that's what I meant by that.

00:23:59: What feedback do we get from your followers?

00:24:01: Is it also feel like these stories are missing or...?

00:24:06: Of course, so I remember that i was in Kashmir and did a story from very remote area where Gujar-Bakarwal community lives.

00:24:17: They told me...I was shocked to know they had never seen professional camera Since they have the mobile phones and everything, but never touched it.

00:24:25: They asked can we click a picture?

00:24:28: I was like okay... It's first time that we are seeing journalists who come here to cover our story To talk with us And when we published their stories With those comments The person featured in this video He is talking about him being a journalist for his very first time I got lot of beautiful comment.

00:24:50: You're the one who is covering real issues from the ground.

00:24:54: So, of course it's very rewarding especially if you are working on social media.

00:24:57: people can give your feedback instantly.

00:25:00: so yeah I get a lot such comments.

00:25:05: Okay and Ofcourse On The One Side Social Media Platforms As YouTube.

00:25:10: They Give You The Freedom To Publish Whatever You Want.

00:25:14: But On The Other Side You Are Also Dependent On The Platforms.

00:25:19: This depends on your meter for example.

00:25:22: How do you cope with that?

00:25:25: Yeah, I mean these platforms to not care about journalism at all.

00:25:29: Being a journalist i take pride in covering stories That has never been covered before.

00:25:36: But algorithm does not care About your masterpiece.

00:25:39: You know it pushes you To talk about what is trending

00:25:46: And

00:25:47: then somehow get trapped In the loop and you are forced to follow the same trending agenda.

00:25:54: And I'm talking about India particularly, like in India we did not see social media as some additional arm of the media or another option for doing journalism.

00:26:05: For many a first it was only an option and a decentralized space where important stories can be told.

00:26:15: but no independent journalist today should Pretend that platform's dependency is not real.

00:26:23: If a platform can reduce your reach, change monetization rules remove content or you know bury work in the algorithm.

00:26:33: That of course affects your freedom in practice.

00:26:37: so Independence today You know it's not just editorial It is also distributional and seriously affect our work.

00:26:47: My own social media platform, Facebook is demonetized from last three years.

00:26:54: And I don't know why and i'm just you know preparing a case where uh...and take me to the court that why they have you know demonetize my page.

00:27:05: so it's like if your not getting paid in but your channel has not monetized then of course you won't feel motivated enough.

00:27:16: two stories every day.

00:27:18: So, yeah of course it affects seriously effects that these algorithms are.

00:27:23: they do not care about journalism.

00:27:24: I'd like to repeat again.

00:27:26: Vijay you also work as a freelance journalist.

00:27:29: how do you see your independence when it comes to social media and digital media platforms?

00:27:41: Posting on social media about anything.

00:27:44: I feel like i have just really minimized posting or giving out opinions On X, Instagram...I've just minimised it to such a large extent because Anything you do will be twisted and used against You.

00:28:06: We are aware that there are coordinated campaigns To discredit and to dismiss them.

00:28:14: And this is true even more so for journalists who are Muslim, journalists women, journalist Dalit.

00:28:24: So the vulnerability increase in that sense right?

00:28:31: So female journalists They often receive rape threats and threats related to sexual violence.

00:28:42: And I also see that every time, you know post a story or anything... ...I would see certain comment related my identity.

00:28:54: That is very discouraging!

00:28:57: I remember this one time when, uh...I had shared a story that it was an investigation actually.

00:29:03: That i have done on how the Indian government was cancelling The visas of the diaspora members who are critical Of current BJP Government thats in power and How they were also barring foreign academics or foreign activists from entering the country.

00:29:33: Using either arbitrary, using the rules and laws arbitrarily Or by not giving them a reason at all.

00:29:39: So when I posted this story

00:29:41: clearly

00:29:42: This was sometime in twenty-twenty three or twenty four I

00:29:47: remember a

00:29:48: coordinated

00:29:49: campaign

00:29:50: on X which was done to completely discredit my work, number one.

00:29:57: Number two

00:29:58: twist

00:29:58: the narrative To make it seem that this is how efficient government is That they are cancelling visas of those who critical of them.

00:30:11: Now bear in mind these visas were cancelled without any due process or without any hearing, right?

00:30:21: Without any kind of redressal mechanism.

00:30:24: And the people I spoke to have challenged these cancellations in the courts in India.

00:30:29: So this is what i noticed...I also notice that there are some accounts This was happening on X. There's some account would do like a profile off mine Right?

00:30:43: From whatever information that they could gather of me, from LinkedIn or wherever else.

00:30:49: And there would talk about me and where I've worked because... ...I have worked at an independent publication in the past scrolls that i mentioned.

00:30:58: They will use it to discredit me once again and they would draw various other parallels of.

00:31:07: you know foreign funding, because I received a grant from the Pulitzer Center.

00:31:12: They would use that to say oh i'm funded by foreign entities etc.

00:31:18: so this is what many journalists face.

00:31:22: it's not just me.

00:31:25: It is very coordinated And now of course has shifted to Instagram post the protests because a lot of people who were attending the protest, a lot students they are making reels and alot.

00:31:44: that is being censored.

00:31:46: It's been blocked in India.

00:31:47: we're not able access those accounts or see those posts which documenting life at the protests.

00:31:55: It's even happened to news organizations who've been posting on Instagram such as The Wire, The Scroll and even the Hindu which is a mainstream newspaper.

00:32:06: They're

00:32:07: posts say they use pellet guns of Kashmiri people for protests plot to assassinate a Kalastani activist in America.

00:32:22: A post pertaining to these issues are being blocked.

00:32:28: so yeah it's not particularly encouraging to post online, I only post when i have a story to share

00:32:35: but

00:32:36: also feel...I've been heavily refraining from doing so.

00:32:41: I don't know what Rohit and Safina feel, if they agree with me or have similar... For Rohit of course you have to post very often because that's how you engage in your community And those who follow you.

00:32:56: So you do not have an option.

00:32:59: But yeah i dont'know what Safina might add on that.

00:33:02: Yeah Safina Do You Want To Add Something?

00:33:05: What is Your Observation With The Social Media In Your Work As A Journalist?

00:33:10: So regarding the recent protests in Delhi, which was a student's moment there.

00:33:17: We have seen that kind of protest in Kashmir where students used to come out their college universities and they started protesting.

00:33:27: They were reports circulating on social media.

00:33:30: You should learn from the Kashmiri journalists how they are doing reporting during those crisis and during these kind of circumstances.

00:33:41: Yeah, a thing is that when right in my early career I have faced trolls which later infact i didn't started posting on social media one was not for the trolls we had another threat being called every time by security agencies.

00:34:01: you know..we tried to sell some propaganda here.

00:34:06: So yeah, for me it's a different take.

00:34:09: Maybe its different from Vijayata but if we start posting some news which is based in Kashmir and reported from Kashmir We are very much concerned even if we share that we shouldn't be called as Pakistanis or propaganda having more to behind of sharing this.

00:34:31: For me, sharing is not to share.

00:34:33: It's a different story than Vijeta.

00:34:37: Yeah thank you very much Also for sharing that perspective and also here we can see it's Very diverse in the different realities You face as journalists.

00:34:48: So I want to come To The third part of our conversation today And its more focused on workshop.

00:34:56: As during these days In Delhi We spoke about reporting at India Media and German media.

00:35:04: And when we take a look in the media, there seems to be relatively little reporting about Germany or also the European Union compared to countries such as US China or India's immediate neighbors.

00:35:21: so I went through your YouTube channel Rohit.

00:35:24: you have like section for geopolitics and it includes reporting on Syria, Turkey, Gulf states.

00:35:31: And of course the United States but there's almost nothing about Germany and EU.

00:35:37: so I want to ask you why is that?

00:35:41: What would need to happen for this

00:35:43: change?".

00:35:45: For us everything western world man just kidding!

00:35:50: So yeah...that totally a fair criticism.

00:35:52: The US gets attention because It's a global power and we have lot of Indian diaspora living there, many.

00:36:00: And same goes with Middle East countries because for us middle east matters directly to the India.

00:36:06: Because one thing is my audiences are... A lot them are Indian migrants those who live in the region.

00:36:14: they want coverage on it.

00:36:16: Also before partition India shared border with Iran.

00:36:21: So, we have a lot of cultural similarities and you know people feel very connected when we talk about Iran.

00:36:28: When We Talk About Middle East because you Know A Lot Of People Working There You Know And Culture Is Almost Similar.

00:36:39: The Religious Practices Are Also Similar.

00:36:41: so..we Feel A Lot of Connection there.

00:36:44: but...and your right totally right that from the Indian Media And especially the German perspective is not covered much, but I can speak for myself that in becoming future you will see more coverage of Germany or European countries.

00:37:05: Especially on my channel because India diasporized growing there

00:37:11: and

00:37:12: I would definitely love to learn about their stories.

00:37:20: Months or weeks you'll find a lot of coverage about EU and Germany on my channel.

00:37:27: We will definitely stay tuned, but we can also turn this around.

00:37:33: India does not receive that much attention in Germany as well.

00:37:37: Recently, one event we have spoken about today quite a lot of course was the Cockroach Movement at Tuts and even made it to front page for such long time.

00:37:46: I think that India is on the front page of Tuts again or story connected with India.

00:37:53: But beyond these kinds of stories, what do you think German journalists should be reporting about when they report about India?

00:38:02: Or which the stories or developments are we currently missing.

00:38:06: Yeah thanks for that question.

00:38:08: I think that international media really needs to pay attention... ...to this exercise called special intensive revision.

00:38:20: It's an exercise that is being carried out by the Election Commission of India, where it's a revision of the voter lists in the country.

00:38:29: And

00:38:30: has already been conducted in states like Bihar and West Bengal.

00:38:35: What we saw in West Bengal was particularly its parks concerns about mass disenfranchisement Right?

00:38:43: This is very crucial to look at because A lot of people have lost their voter

00:38:53: rights.

00:38:53: Nearly sixty million people in India so far, right?

00:38:58: So far they've been struck off voter lists.

00:39:01: This exercise is currently ongoing across other states as well.

00:39:11: The UN Special Rapporteur has also issued a statement and asked the Indian government questions because The statement said that a lot of people whose names were deleted, who have been impacted are minorities.

00:39:27: And they've also raised several questions about if your name has been removed from the voter list what does it take for you to appeal and get back on?

00:39:37: That process hasn't been particularly transparent.

00:39:40: so I do feel international media needs pay attention kind of sort, like a de facto citizenship test.

00:39:52: Even though the Supreme Court has said that this exercise does not test your citizenship.

00:39:58: but we've seen in West Bengal particularly those whose names have been taken out of their water lists.

00:40:06: they are no longer eligible to receive welfare benefits such as rations

00:40:10: and

00:40:11: food etc.

00:40:13: So I think that this is an issue international media really needs

00:40:32: to look at.

00:40:41: including the questions I've asked you so far today, is there something that people from Germany or Europe in general tend to misunderstand about media landscape and India?

00:40:54: And what should we understand better of be more aware off.

00:41:00: I think approach from European media particularly German media has remained only traditional kind of reporting.

00:41:10: The European media, what they do?

00:41:11: They report during the time of crisis you know whenever there is wars within the subcontinent.

00:41:19: During escalations between the nations.

00:41:21: but Europe has to understand that they have come over from traditional kind of reporting which is surface level reporting then reporting in-depth kinds of documentaries long form journalism analysis, commentary.

00:41:42: and we have seen you know whenever any foreign journalists report from the small cities leave the national capital they hire local journalist.

00:41:54: so it's a request that western media should not treat them as fixers.

00:42:00: They should really credit them as journalists because they are the journalist who is reporting from ground.

00:42:09: Most of times, they face threats and surveillance which foreign journalists once leave the city may not face those kinds of surveillance.

00:42:21: So yeah, for them they need to really invest in the journalists rather than you know just doing a kind of event based reporting.

00:42:30: For example In twenty-twenty there was India China face off in Ladakh.

00:42:37: so if you see European coverage how it works I think The Guardian has an indepth coverage on and rest were all carrying new statements based New Delhi newsrooms not the ground level reporting.

00:42:52: So, they need actually when world order has changed so as our part of work change so they really need to look through different perspectives.

00:43:01: So it's not the subcontinent and India, particularly Kashmir is not the same what you have been reporting during the eighties and the nineties.

00:43:09: The world has changed ,the challenge has changed on ground.

00:43:12: .So yeah..so They Need To Invest In Journalists.

00:43:15: They Need Give The Fair Compensation ..They Need To Give The Credit To The Local Journalist And They Need Provide Them The Support Which Can Be Institutional Support As Well as the legal support because you know independent journalists are more vulnerable in Kashmir.

00:43:32: I can't say about rest of country, but they need an institutional support and a legal support.

00:43:54: Thank you so much, Safina for raising this very important point.

00:43:58: And I want to come the end and ask you a last question.

00:44:02: in the beginning You said Rohit that there are.

00:44:05: the horn he brought with your reminds you That There's A long Way To go?

00:44:10: This Perfectly Fits to My Last Question.

00:44:14: Let's Imagine That We meet again In ten Years as Said in The Beginning Today in the Ranks Unfortunately uh, one hundred fifty seventh out of one hundred eighty countries in the reporters without borders were press freedom index.

00:44:30: What would need to change so that then ten years from now we can meet again and talk about India than india did ranks among the first fifty countries?

00:44:40: Just one thing.

00:44:40: The day a newsroom Can lose government add contract?

00:44:45: And

00:44:46: still

00:44:47: make payrolls.

00:44:50: today you know Public will start funding journalism just like, you know, that's Panther Foundation or DW.

00:44:58: Or other good examples we have.

00:45:01: We'll make it to You Know.

00:45:03: top-fifty I'm sure.

00:45:06: Thank you so much for the answer Vajata.

00:45:07: do you want to add something?

00:45:10: I feel like as soon as The Indian Prime Minister gives a press conference

00:45:16: our

00:45:16: rank is really going to bump up.

00:45:19: That one thing because yes as Rohit also mentioned earlier, the Indian Prime Minister has not

00:45:26: given

00:45:26: a press conference in twelve years and three months.

00:45:31: And we are still counting right?

00:45:33: This is unprecedented.

00:45:35: it's absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for Because We know...we see how his party which was ruling party used media only only to create and stir and spin narratives.

00:45:53: So I feel that a press conference is an unscripted press conference, it's necessary...I also feel that Indian authorities are very quick-to-file terror cases or defamation cases not just in the authorities but also big indian corporations.

00:46:17: defamation cases against journalists.

00:46:21: every time a piece of reporting reveals certain aspects, how they function and the way in which it allows them to borrow more public money without any checks or accountability.

00:46:37: So I really do feel that the case is against journalist needs

00:46:44: to stop.

00:46:46: something specific in mind that needs to improve.

00:46:48: That from ten years from now we have a better situation, and India also in Jammu and Kashmir?

00:46:56: Yeah I think government needs you know accept the criticism which is not the case right now.

00:47:04: so as we see there are concerns regarding digital laws.

00:47:11: have journalists are coping with that, you know it's a threat to the free speech-free press.

00:47:17: So if India wants to fulfill its dream of twenty forty seven which is Vixit Bharat so they need to work in that direction To let The Press to Work freely and as India Is A part Of Different International Organizations And To Fulfill Its Commendments It Needs in this direction.

00:47:41: And most importantly, India does not have to use the harsh laws which may be there for terrorism or anti-national activities.

00:47:50: again as journalists who are doing their job and showing mirror to government you know?

00:47:57: As we spoke about earlier regarding that roles ,we've seen how social media campaigns turning dangerous for journalists in India.

00:48:06: We have seen the case of journalist Gauri Lankesh who was just killed outside her home and we who was killed outside his office in Kashmir.

00:48:22: So if the press has to work freely, so the journalists I think... The grave as we say that no story is worth life!

00:48:32: If government will take care of this one of most important aspects.

00:48:39: and second as harassment You know you threaten the journalists.

00:48:44: You call them, question them... You personally ask questions which are very personal in nature and then realize that why are doing this?

00:48:53: And should be continuing to do so.

00:48:56: if government will stop doing such activities again as journalism I'm sure India will improve its ranking on the press freedom index.

00:49:06: Thank you so much Safina!

00:49:07: Thank you Rohit and Mijata for sharing your perspectives and sharing your ideas inside full stories with us, we are very much looking forward to continue the conversation about a relationship between India in Germany.

00:49:25: And there's special touch supplement which will be published With The Weekly Edition of Tuts on November twenty.

00:49:32: first This project is partly funded by the German Federal Foreign Office but projects also demand on the support of private donors.

00:49:44: So if you would like to support our work, we would very much appreciate your donation.

00:49:49: You can find all the information at tuts dot d e slash Spenden.

00:49:57: so thank you very much for listening and have a wonderful day.